The Circumstances of Our Descent ... Talla Family

RE: The Circumstances of Our Descent
By: Mark Edward Westerfield (great grandson of Claire Sage Talla Johnson)
Date: 12 April 2009

Our Talla family has always been proud of our ancestry from Norway boasting of our handsome good looks and Viking heritage. In the mid 1800’s four immigrants came to America to Goodhue County, Minnesota, from Norway. They were my great grandmother’s four grandparents. This is why we always said she was “full-blooded Norwegian”.

My great grandmother was Claire Sage Talla Johnson. Her maiden name was Talla.

Her eldest child was my grandmother Phyllis Talla Johnson Westerfield. When my grandmother died I remember my aunt mentioning a gold necklace from Australia where a relative had gone to a gold rush. I remember my grandmother was great at making fruit preserves, jams, jellies, and juices from fruit bushes and fruit trees in her garden. She wore her long dark hair in two very long braids wrapped around her head with pearl-like pins in them so that she appeared to be wearing a crown on her head. She had very bright blue eyes. Thus, she loved the color blue for her clothes or her jewelry. She also loved cobalt blue glassware and Blue Willow china. I took to giving her blue rhinestone pins.

All these should have been hints or clues into her ancestry which I was not to learn until long after her death.

When I wrote about my discovery that the Talla family descended by many multiple routes and by independent routes from countless kings my brother, Michael, questioned the probability of it when it seemed obvious to him that the probability would normally seem extremely low because on average there are many more commoners than kings or nobility. This is the expected response.

In reality, under the circumstances of our descent, the probability that we descend from kings happens to be extremely high if not clearly absolute. Why?

It is known, without doubt, that our Talla ancestors lived for many many generations, for many hundreds of years, in relatively remote, relatively isolated, relatively hidden, historically significant, beautifully romantic Luster Fjord valley also called Lustrafjord valley, the inner-most northerly small branch of greater Sogn Fjord also called Sognefjord in south western Norway. Luster Fjord valley happens to be well known for its fruit trees and fruit bushes, fruit preserves, jams, jellies, and juices. Luster is also known for the beautiful blue color of its ice glaciers. The name Luster comes from the way sunlight reflects and shines off the ice glaciers, snow, tall water falls, and water.

It is known that all four grandparents of my great grandmother Claire Sage Talla Johnson came to America in the mid 1800’s from Norway and that three had been born in Luster Fjord valley.

My great grandmother's paternal grandfather Toege Nitter Nilssen / Nilsson Talle came from Talle Farm of Luster ... but only after he first went to a gold rush in Australia where he was paid in gold nuggets one of which survives still in our family as a pendant on a necklace, apparently the one my aunt was thinking of. It survives in the Talla family heirs of my great grandmother’s eldest brother.

My great grandmother's paternal grandfather Toege Nitter Nilssen / Nilsson Talle’s mother, my great grandmother's great grandmother Susanna Christophersdttr Nitter Talle (born in Kjorlaug in Hafslo, not far from Talle Farm in Luster) lived and died at Talle Farm on the west (or north west) bank of Luster Fjord.

It is also well known, without doubt, that earlier descendants of several of Norway's historical Medieval noble families (such as Benkestok or Sudreim / Sudrheim) who were known, without doubt, to have descended from kings, owned property and lived many generations in the same Luster Fjord valley. These absolutely, without doubt, included our ancestors Torleiv Trondsson Benkestok and his wife Adelus Eriksdttr Kruckow Benkestok, both born circa 1460's in Luster Fjord valley almost 400 years before our ancestors came from Luster Fjord valley, and both known to have descended from kings. Adelus’ father was also born in Luster Fjord valley. Torleiv's father's name "Trond" translates as "Throne". "Adelus" translates as "Aristocracy". Each family descended from kings of Norway, Denmark, and Celtic and Anglo-Saxon Britain.
Their son, our ancestor, Trond Torleivsson Benkestok, married Anna Jonsdttr Haar / Haard of Bergen which was the historical Norwegian King's capital city on the Atlantic coast just south of the mouth of Sogn Fjord ... Bergen, in fact, became the Norwegian King's capital by 1217 upon the reign of our ancestor King Haakon IV Haakonsson, the grandfather of our ancestor King Haakon V Haalegg Magnusson.

Anna Jonsdttr Haar / Haard Benkestok's great grandmother was the historically significant Agnes Alvsdttr Bolt who held the title "Heir of the Hereditary Throne of Norway by the Sudreim / Sudrheim Claim" ... this was a legal title by arrangement of the succession to the throne of Norway as outlined during the reign of King Haakon V but also means that in the view of independence-minded Norwegian Nobles she ought to have been the Queen of Norway. She descended from kings through both her parents. Through her mother Cathrine / Katarina Jonsdttr she descended from the powerful Baron of Sudreim / Sudrheim Havtore Jonsson Roos, himself descended from kings, and his wife the Princess Agnes Haakonsdttr til Sudreim / Sudrheim, eldest daughter of King Haakon V Haalegg Magnusson who had no sons but had his two daughters: Agnes, the eldest (our ancestor), and her younger half sister Ingebjorg / Ingeborg, the daughter of his Queen Euphamia / Euphemia / Eufemia of Arnstein von Rugen whose family from north Germany sought wider power in the region getting the King Haakon V to abolish the title of Baron in Norway, removing Norwegian noble families (if temporarily) from the King's Council of the Realm, and removing religious clerics, replacing all with persons willing to make heirs of Ingebjorg / Ingeborg first right to the succession of Norway with heirs of Agnes next in line. We, in fact, descend from both brothers Sigurd and Jon, the sons of the Baron of Sudreim / Sudrheim Havtore Jonsson Roos and Princess Agnes Haakonsdttr til Sudreim / Sudrheim. Anna Jonsdttr Haar / Haard Benkestok descended from Sigurd Havtoresson. Later descendants of Jon Havtoresson, the Teiste and Eide families of Luster Fjord valley, inter-married with the Luster Fjord valley descendants of Anna Jonsdttr Haar / Haard Benkestok, and thus we descend from both Sigurd and Jon, sons of Baron of Sudreim / Sudrheim Havtore Jonsson Roos and Princess Agnes Haakonsdttr til Sudreim / Sudrheim, eldest daughter of King Haakon V Haalegg Magnusson.

On a map of Luster Fjord valley (see Google maps satellite or terrain views) you can still see the name Sudreim / Sudrheim / Sørheim / Sørum on the property across the fjord from Luster which is nearby Talle Farm. The family also had property of same name in south east Norway near Oslo. Their coat of arms was a large red 5-petal rose on a yellow shield. The name means “South Home” or “South Homestead” or “South Home Farm”.

Jon and Sigurd each inherited vast property in Norway through their father's (Baron Havtore's) sister's daughter's (their first cousin's) two advantageous marriages, one having been to the only son of the drottsete or ruler of Norway in absence of the "foreign Ingebjorgian kings" of Sweden and Denmark over Norway. This hugely wealthy first cousin of Jon and Sigurd whose lands they inherited was a lady of Shetland origins, Herdis Thorvaldsdatter who had amassed such wealth until her death in 1363. Her father was herra Thorvald Thoresson, the king of Norway’s syslumaðr in Shetland in the 1290s. Herdis made one, probably two strategic marriages. Her first, documented marriage was to Svein Sigurdssson, who is mentioned as regional treasurer in Bergen 1328-1329. Svein died in 1332. Herdis’ second marriage, as suggested by the historian P. A. Munch in 1862, was probably to the Norwegian nobleman, Bjarne Erlingsson, who married an unnamed, prominent woman in 1343. This earned Herdis the title of ‘fru’ (lady), which is used in the later sources (after Øye 2002:88). Bjarne was the only son of the drottsete Erling Vidkunsson, that is the highest royal official of the time, who also owned the Bjarkøy estate in Northern Norway. Bjarne Erlingsson, who was knighted on his own account, died in 1349, leaving Herdis a widow for the second time.

Both Sigurd and Jon tried to take the throne of Norway away from their first cousin King of Sweden and over Norway, Magnus VII, the son of Agnes' younger half sister Ingebjorg / Ingeborg.

Our ancestor The Heir of Norway by Sudreim / Sudrheim Claim Agnes Alvsdttr Bolt's mother our ancestor Cathrine / Katarina Jonsdttr was the sister of historical Sigurd Jonsson The Heir of the Throne of Norway by Sudreim / Sudrheim Claim, Knight, Guardian of the Realm, member of the King's Council of the Realm, and drottsete or supreme ruler of Norway in absence of and between the reigns of foreign Ingebjorgian kings of Sweden and Denmark. Drottsete Sigurd Jonsson had inherited not only the titles but also the vast land property of Baron Havtore Jonsson Roos' sister's daughter's (Baron of Sudreim / Sudrheim Havtore's sons Sigurd's and Jon's first cousin's) two advantageous marriages, one having been to the only son of a previous drottsete of Norway. Drottsete Sigurd Jonsson was said to be the largest landowner in Norway. We descend from his sister Cathrine / Katarina Jonsdttr. Drottsete Sigurd Jonsson's son Hans died childless and so "The Claim" fell to our ancestor Agnes Alvsdttr Bolt, the great grandmother of our ancestor Anna Jonsdttr Haar / Haard Benkestok. Three siblings, Karl Knutsson, Eirik Knutsson, and Bothild / Bodil Knutsdttr each Heirs by Sudreim/ Sudrheim Claim who were also great grandchildren of Agnes Alvsdttr Bolt were beheaded by sword in the weeks of and soon after the November 1520 Stockholm Bloodbath on orders by Danish King Christian II of the Kalmar Union. Their father Knut Alvsson The Heir by Sudreim / Sudrheim Claim had been killed in 1502 trying to regain the family throne under the Sudreim / Sudrheim Claim after he had taken several castles.

Fortunately, our ancestor Anna Jonsdttr Haar / Haard who was a child in 1520 survived the family massacre and later married Trond Torleivsson Benkestok. Their son, Tord Trondsson Benkestok, father of our ancestor Maren Tordsdttr Benkestok Heiberg, was of the same generation as The Lady (Fru) Gyrvhild / Gorvil Faddersdttr / Fadersdttr , daughter of the murdered (thought to be in 1520) Bothild / Bodil Knutsdttr, who thus became the next Heir by Sudreim / Sudrheim Claim and who held vast lands in Norway inherited from drottsete Sigurd Jonsson brother of our ancestor Cathrine / Katarina Jonsdttr whose daughter was our ancestor Agnes Alvsdttr Bolt The Heir by Sudreim / Sudrheim Claim.

Anna Jonsdttr Haar / Haard Benkestok's mother was Elene Aslaksdttr whose mother was Ragnfrid / Ragnfried Knutsdttr the daughter of The Heir by Sudreim / Sudrheim Claim Agnes Alvsdttr Bolt and our ancestor Ragnfrid was the sister of The Heir by Sudreim / Sudrheim Claim Alv Knutsson the father of The Heir by Sudreim / Sudrheim Claim Knut Alvsson who was killed in 1502 whose three children were beheaded by sword in 1520.

Anna Jonsdttr Haar / Haard Benkestok and Trond Torleivsson Benkestok were the parents of Tord Trondsson Benkestok the father of Maren Tordsdttr Benkestok Heiberg from whom we descend by three of her children: Christen, Mette / Metta, and Cecilie. Christen was the eldest.
The fact that families of Medieval Nobility of Norway owned and lived in Luster Fjord valley including Sudreim / Sudrheim and Benkestok cannot be denied. The Benkestok family legend says that the name means "Wooden Bench" and that it comes from the family hiding a king of Norway in a wooden bench thus saving his life. I wondered if this actually could be, perhaps in part, an allegorical story ... that, in reality, the Benkestok family in Luster was protecting within it the actual rightful line of kings of Norway.

The circumstances of our descent includes the extreme inter-marriages of these Luster descendants of brothers Sigurd and Jon, sons of the powerful Baron of Sudreim / Sudrheim Havtore Jonsson Roos, himself the descendant of kings, and his wife the Princess Agnes Haakonsdttr til Sudreim / Sudrheim, eldest daughter of King of Norway Haakon V Haalegg Magnusson who ruled 1299-1319.

We descend from siblings Malene and Peder children of Mogens Antoniusson Eide himself, through his father, descended from mayors of Oslo and Copenhagen and, through his mother, from King Inge Baardsson ... and his (Mogens') wife Karen Johansdttr Teiste Eide who descended from Jon Havtoresson (as well as from also Adelus Eriksdttr Kruckow Benkestok). Malene and Peder each married grandchildren of Maren Tordsdttr Benkestok Heiberg thus uniting descendants of Sigurd Havtoresson and Jon Havtoresson. And, thus, each parent of my great grandmother's great grandmother, Susanna Christophersdttr Nitter Talle, each descended from both brothers Sigurd Havtoresson and Jon Havtoresson, sons of Baron of Sudreim / Sudrheim Havtore Jonsson Roos and Princess Agnes Haakonsdttr til Sudreim / Sudrheim, eldest daughter of King Haakon V Haalegg Magnusson.

Inter-marriages were frequent in our Luster ancestors obviously because of the isolation of the community and because they lived there for many hundreds of years. For yet another example we descend from Maren Tordsdttr Benkestok Heiberg's husband Anders Lauritsson Heiberg and his brother Sofren Lauritsson Heiberg who apparently had bought a farm "at Talle", where Maren and Anders apparently married in 1593.

As I have written previously, our ancestors had connections to Luster or to the area nearby or to Sogn Fjord going back 1000 years before our ancestors came to America from Luster Fjord valley.

A Viking Era Irish silver hoard was found buried on Talle Farm in the 1930's. The Viking Era was circa 800's through around 1066 (Battle of Stamford Bridge sometimes given as the end of the Viking Era).

Our ancestor King Olav III Kyrre The Gentle Haraldsson who survived the Battle of Stamford Bridge in Britain, where his father King Harald III Hardrada The Ruthless Sigurdsson was killed, founded his city of Bergen in 1070 just south of the mouth of Sogn Fjord. Bergen was the King's capital by the reign of our ancestor King Haakon IV Haakonsson, grandfather of our ancestor King Haakon V Haalegg Magnusson.

Our ancestor King Harald IV Gille Magnusson (grandson of King Olav III) was murdered in Bergen in 1136.

King Harald IV Gille’s grandson, our ancestor, Ragnvald Jonsson Blindheim, was killed in 1184 at the Battle of Fimreite in Sogn Fjord very near the branch of Luster Fjord not too far from where Talle Farm later was. Our ancestor King Sverre Sigurdsson also fought there, won, and thus became king.

Our ancestor King Halvdan Swarte / Svarti The Black (for his black hair) Gudrodsson became King of Sogn / Sokn circa mid 800's after his young 10 year old son the boy King Harald of Sogn and the boy's mother and the boy's maternal grandfather the King Harald Goldbeard of Sogn / Sokn all died in the same year period. Thus, our ancestor King of Agder and Vestfold Halvdan The Black acquired Sogn / Sokn. This was 1000 years before our ancestors came to America from there. I would love to know where King Harald Goldbeard's home was and whether it might have been in Luster Fjord valley which is the inner-most northerly branch of Sogn Fjord. King Halvdan The Black willed his kingdom to his son our ancestor King Harald I Harfagre Fairhair Halvdansson who willed Sogn and Hordaland, where later Bergen was, to his sons.
Thus, it very well could be that our ancestors lived in Luster Fjord valley or nearby in greater Sogn Fjord or the adjacent area of Bergen in Hordaland going back 1000 years before our ancestors left Luster for America. We know that our direct ancestors Torleiv Trondsson Benkestok and his wife Adelus Eriksdttr Kruckow Benkestok were born in Luster Fjord valley circa 1460, and Adelus’ father was born there too almost 400 years before our ancestors came to America from Luster Fjord valley. We know that real Vikings buried their Irish silver hoard on land that later became the Talle Family Farm circa the Viking Era which itself is said to be sometime between circa mid or early 800's and 1066. If these were also our ancestors (which quite possibly could be) this would be some nearly 800 - 1000 years before our ancestors came to America from Luster Fjord valley.

There is no way to know just how ancient our ancestors lived there. It could be thousands of years ... soon after the end of the last ice age allowed the land to appear.

The minimal some 400 years would have been at least some 12 generations during which we know of many family inter-marriages. We know we descend from several sets of siblings in Luster Fjord valley. Over such long periods long term families are almost sure to be distant cousins with common ancestors. If high noble families descended from kings are known to have owned land and farms and lived in Luster Fjord valley some 400 years before our three ancestors left there for America in the mid 1800's and if all three who came to America descended from long term Luster Fjord valley families who lived in Luster Fjord valley many generations of hundreds of years then there is a very good chance that all three descended from those high noble Luster Fjord valley families who descended from kings.

We descend from several sets of siblings ... multiple children ... of many kings of Norway as well as of many kings and nobles of other places. If in certain instances one might be questionable, there still remains the other siblings we descend from.

For example we descend from two children of Princess Agnes Haakonsdttr til Sudreim / Sudrheim, two children of her great grandfather King Haakon IV Haakonsson, two children of King Sigurd II Munn Haraldsson, three or four children of King Harald IV Gille Magnusson, three children of Magnus III Barelegs Olavsson (including King Sigurd Jorsalafar), two children of King Sigurd Syr of Ringeringe / Ringerike, four children of King Harald I Harfagre Fairhair Halvdansson ... as well as two children, Sigrid and Guttorm, of Aasolv Skulisson the son of Skuli Tostigsson and Gudrun the granddaughter of King Sigurd Syr. Skuli Tostigsson was son of Earl of Northumbria Tostig Godwinsson and Judith Fausta of Flanders. Tostig's brother was our ancestor King of Anglo-Saxon England Harold II Godwinsson who he fought at Stamford Bridge in 1066 where Tostig was killed along with King Harald III The Ruthless. Tostig's sister Edith was the Queen of England as the wife of King Edward the Confessor who died in January 1066. Tostig's father Godwine Earl of Wessex rose to power under Danish King of England Canute the Great who married Queen Emma mother of King Edward the Confessor. Tostig's son our ancestor Skuli was adopted as foster son of the King Olav Kyrre The Gentle of Norway who gave Skuli his own first cousin Gudrun (grand daughter of King Sigurd Syr) as wife and any lands in Norway Skuli wished to have. Skuli's mother Judith of Flanders was said to descend from Charlemagne by each of her 8 great grandparents, perhaps as many as 9 times total and to descend from King Alfred the Great. Judith Fausta of Flanders' half brother was the father of Queen Matilda wife of William the Conqueror who was crowned King of England Christmas Day 1066. We also descend from Queen Matilda's brother. Thus, we also descend from two children of Baldwin IV The Count of Flanders: Judith and her half brother Baldwin V.

All this is just a taste of the history of our ancestors.

Better known and better documented is the history of the ancestral family of King Haakon V Magnusson who descended from kings of Norway, Denmark, Portugal, France, Germany, Poland, Byzantium, Rus, certainly Charlemagne, and the earlier Merovingian kings, and much more.

There is no doubt that some genealogy is uncertain. But much is historically accepted.

That we descend from three persons from Luster Fjord valley whose ancestors lived there hundreds of years intertwines too closely with the fact that descendants lived in Luster Fjord valley of high noble families descended from kings for us not to be descended from those same kings.

The circumstances of our descent over-ride what otherwise might have been on average more commonly usual.